Review of WOIPFG Investigation Into CCP’s Organ Harvesting From Living Falun Gong Practitioners For Period 2020-2022
Preface
From 2020 to 2022, the three years of pandemic, the CCP’s “Zero-Covid” policy severely damaged the Chinese economy. However, China's organ transplant industry has not been affected. Hospital transplant centers had stayed open, and transplant experts were business as usual seeing patients. Many hospitals had stated that they had sufficient donors.
During the CCP's "Zero-Covid" period, mainland China completely closed down cities and blocked roads. Many people died of unnatural causes because they had no food or medical care. Nonetheless, organ transplantation had enjoyed a "green channel" pass and were accessible by sea, land and air. This was a major anomaly in Chinese society during the three-year pandemic.
WOIPFG has continued to conduct telephone investigations into hospitals and medical staff suspected of harvesting organs from living Falun Gong practitioners. From July 1, 2020 to April 30, 2022, we made hundreds of investigation phone calls and selected 100 and published them here. This group of investigations involves nearly a hundred hospitals and Red Cross societies in provinces and municipalities except Xinjiang and Tibet. In order to make it easy for readers to understand this group of telephone investigations, we have categorized their key contents into several themes and presented them in chronological order as follows:
In subsequent investigations, after the lockdown was lifted in 2023, WOIPFG launched a new round of follow-up telephone investigations from February 2 to March 21, 2023, into transplant experts, professors, directors, and surgeons at some hospitals suspected of harvesting organs from living Falun Gong practitioners. We selected 36 telephone recordings and made public "A Review of 2023 WOIPFG Investigation Into CCP’s Organ Harvesting From Living Falun Gong Practitioners" on April 15, 2023. [1]
This round of investigations involves 32 hospitals in 23 provinces, municipalities and autonomous regions. Except for Zheng Shusen’s Shulan Hospital, which is a private business, the other 31 are all state-owned tertiary level-A hospitals. The persons under investigation are mainly hospital presidents, directors of transplantation departments (transplantation centers), and chief surgeons.
I.Short Waiting Time
September 1, 2020, nurse with Liver Transplant at Beijing Chaoyang Hospital: There are a total of six teams, all led by Director He Qiang. Director He is the primary surgeon. If you're a bit lucky, there might be a (donor) in the afternoon on the day you come.
(Recording 19 download: MP3 , transcript download: pdf19 )
January 2, 2021, Nurse, Kidney Transplant Ward, Second Hospital, Shandong University: Transplant surgeries are not affected by the pandemic. Nuclear Acid Tests are not required for hospital visits. Tissue matching can be done in the clinic. There are patients who got it done in two to three days. Over two hundred were done last year. Usually Director Wang Hongwei is the chief surgeon. Go ask him for waiting time, price, and so on.
(Recording 70 download: MP3 , transcript download: pdf70)
January 3, 2021, Nurse on Duty from Liver Transplantation Ward, First Hospital of Jilin University: Not affected by the Pandemic. No problem. Some had waited for a few months and still didn’t get it. Some could get it in just one week. About 100 cases per year.
(Recording 71 download: MP3 , transcript download: pdf71)
April 30, 2022, Nurse with Surgery Ward, Fudan University Zhongshan Hospital:We are business as usual taking liver transplant patients. The fastest (donor availability) could be one or two days. It’s our presidents doing it—Zhou Jian and Fan Jia. The other doctors are assistants.
(Recording 99 download: MP3 , transcript download: pdf99)
II. Large Transplant Number
August 30, 2020, Nurse with the Office of Doctors for Liver Transplant at Beijing Friendship Hospital: We now perform liver transplants every week. There would be about 200 cases a year.
(Recording 18 download: MP3，transcript download: pdf18)
September 23, 2020, Nurse, Liver Transplant, First Hospital of Shanxi Medical University: Our hospital has been doing the operation during the epidemic. Liver transplants are mainly performed by President Xu, Xu Jun. A lot has been done this year, many have been done.
(Recording 33 download: MP3，transcript download: pdf33)
October 18, 2020, Nurse with the Hepatobiliary Surgery Ward of the Third Hospital of Hebei Province Medical University: Our President Dou leads the team to perform liver transplant surgery. Anyway, we have done more recently, probably several a week.
(Recording 50 download: MP3，transcript download: pdf50)
October 22, 2020, Kidney Transplant Doctor, Third Hospital Affiliated to Sun Yat-sen University, Guangzhou: It’s not affected by the pandemic, we did 20 surgeries last month. Last year, we performed over 200 surgeries.
(Recording 53 download: MP3，transcript download: pdf53)
Oct. 25, 2020, Director Lin with Kidney Transplant Ward of the Third People’s Hospital of Shenzhen City: Generally, about 10 surgeries a month. There could be as many as 15 surgeries, even 20 surgeries. The pandemic has not affected us much, we’ve been doing it all along.
(Recording 54 download: MP3，transcript download: pdf54)
October 29, 2020, Director Zhou Jiexue, Organ Transplant, the Second People’s Hospital of Guangdong Province: We’ve been doing it all along recently. We are not doing just one, we do that many every year. we have three or four teams. We are all working, there’s no time we don’t work.
(Recording 55 download: MP3，transcript download: pdf55)
December 27, 2020, Kidney Transplant Doctor from Shandong Province Qianfoshan Hospital: It’s director’s clinic time on Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday mornings. We have lots of patients, we are busy, and more than 200 surgeries are done a year.
(Recording 67 download: MP3，transcript download: pdf67)
January 1, 2021, Dr. Wang Zhigang, Kidney Transplant, First Affiliated Hospital of Zhengzhou University: Take a covid test when the patient arrives at the hospital, and the transplant procedures are not affected by the pandemic. Currently, there are no beds available. Each year, four hundred, three or four hundred kidney transplants were performed.
(Recording 73 download: MP3，transcript download: pdf73)
January 22, 2021, Dr. Zhang Jixiang, Deputy Director, Liver, Gallbladder, and Pancreatic Surgery, Henan Province People's Hospital: Director Chen Guoyong performs hundreds of cases annually, and this is not an exaggeration. There are individuals specially responsible for this matter; you can make requests to them when needed. More than 200 cases were done last year.
(Recording 74 download: MP3，transcript download: pdf74 )
September 27, 2021, Doctor from Kidney Transplant Clinic, 303 Hospital of People’s Liberation Army, Guangxi: Our team conducts over 400 kidney transplants a year. There are over ten doctors who are able to conduct the surgery.
(Recording 77 download: MP3，transcript download: pdf77)
October 27, 2021, Nurse from Kidney Transplant, Affiliated Hospital of Guiyang Medical College: We have many chief surgeons. Our hospital has quite many kidney supplies. As of now there have been more than 600 cases done this year.
(Recording 78 download: MP3，transcript download: pdf78)
January 16, 2022, Nurse from Kidney Transplant Ward, First Hospital Affiliated to Suzhou University: The patients we have now are all the ones needing kidney transplant. We just did transplant last night. Right now, we have forty to fifty patients in the ward. Question: How many can be done in a month?
Answer: Could be a few dozens or a few hundreds. It’s all possible.
(Recording 82 download: MP3，transcript download: pdf82)
February 18, 2022, Nurse from Kidney Transplant Unit, Third People’s Hospital of Shenzhen City: We do two or three hundred cases a year.
(Recording 85 download: MP3，transcript download: pdf85)
April 30, 2022, Nurse with Surgery Ward, Fudan University Zhongshan Hospital: We’ve never stopped clinic services, and are business as usual taking liver transplant patients. It’s our presidents doing it—Zhou Jian and Fan Jia. The other doctors are assistants. More than 300 liver transplants were done last year.
(Recording 99 download: MP3，transcript download: pdf99)
III. Organ Donation
July 1, 2020, a doctor with Urological Surgery, Qinghai University-affiliated Hospital said there was only one living donor in many years in Qinghai. Kidney source involves the consent of patients. Is there anyone willing to donate it?
Question: Did you say the people here are more conservative, not willing to donate?
Answer: That’s indeed the case. The kidney source is definitely scarce. Many kidneys were obtained from prisoners in the past.
(Recording 1 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf1)
September 1, 2020, Organ Donation Office of Zhejiang Provincial Red Cross Society: We act as witnesses. It is the coordinator from the hospital who will go find and communicate with organ donors. You family members will never know how organs are found and donated. We don’t know, either. And we don’t know what kind of accident it is and when organs are available.
(Recording 19 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf19 )
September 3, 2020, the Human Organ Donation Center of the Red Cross Society of Heilongjiang Province: How many (donated organs) we have in a year, and whether you can get on the list, are all information those people who manage the organ donation distribution system know. They have the data. We cannot access that system. Do you understand?
(Recording 22 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf22)
September 8, 2020, Organ Donation Office of the Red Cross Society of Chengdu City: Kidney donations are rare nationwide. There are donation conditions: Accidental death, such as brain death from car accident, rather than from diseases. With patients who die of illnesses in ICU, and who have not registered for donations, hospitals will use their organs directly. All transplant donors will have to fill out forms with the Red Cross Society. What is happening is that, when the hospital decides on an operation, it will notify the Red Cross, which will rush to the hospital for witnessing formalities. In Chengdu, there can be about one hundred donations a year. There have been an increase in donation in the past couple of years, there were fewer cases before. From 2017 or 2019 to now, there have been only four or five hundred donors.
(Recording 25 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf25)
September 15, 2020, Organ Donation Office of Anshan City Red Cross Society: There is not one case of organ donation this year. There were very few before. Because the kidneys that could be used after people died were very few. The organs we can use here are all corneas. What we have are basically people of old age, and when people of old age die, their kidneys basically can’t be used. There are very few people coming to us making organ donations. Organs from people of natural death cannot be used. If the hospital does not come to us for donation witness, we won’t know it. They are all unnatural deaths, and we have very few this kind. And we are not clear about where exactly the hospital has taken the organs.
(Recording 28 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf28)
September 23, 2020, Organ Donation Office of Red Cross Society in Xuhui District of Shanghai: We do not have organs here that can be provided to hospitals for transplant, none for years now. Many of them are older people, or sick older people. Their organs are in general not to be used, and their bodies are to be used for medical research or teaching.
(Recording 35 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf35)
September 23, 2020, Organ Donation Office of Red Cross Society in Huangpu District of Shanghai: Why is there such an energetic promotion? It’s because there are too few donations. The number of healthy and useful donated organs is really very very few, the probability of having a matched organ is very small. It’s not like, there are car accidents every day. But when there happen to be car accidents, people may not want to make donations. Many of those involved in car accident are not willing to make donations. That is, there are many traffic accidents, every day there are many people who will die in traffic accidents in Shanghai; but those who are willing to make donations are between far and few, hardly any.Only those who die of accidental death and are healthy can be used, otherwise they are useless.
(Recording 34 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf34)
September 25, 2020, Organ Donation Office of Red Cross Society in Jiangxi Province: Organ donations were made after citizens are deceased, not when they are alive. So we cannot be sure. Although we have many volunteers who are willing to donate their organs when they die, we do not know when they will pass away. This year the whole province has over 100 successful donations. But after the donations, whether these livers could be used, or where they have been used, we are not sure.Nobody can tell. Only healthy people can register as a donor. But when will they pass away, we cannot track them. We cannot make phone calls and ask if you have passed away, or if you are in that state? So donor registration and successful donation are not necessarily connected. Our law stipulates that donation of organs from the deceased must go through the Red Cross Society. But sometimes it’s the hospital itself that gets the organ, and notifies us for witnessing. Do the hospitals have other channels or not? I have no control. We Chinese have such a special mindset: We do not want to donate organs. I think that’s our special mindset.
(Recording 38 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf38)
October 12, 2020, Organ Donation Office of Red Cross Society in Inner Mongolia: The responsibility of the Red Cross Society is to promote and motivate donation registrations.The registration at the Red Cross Society is not to register organs, rather, it’s to register the will of volunteers who want to make organ donations. We don’t have organs here. Donations are possible only when a person dies. What’s registered now is only an intent of the volunteer who wants to make donations, an intent agreeing to donate organs when the person dies. The large number of people who come for donation registration does not mean there are many donated organs. A healthy person will live to 70 or 80, or even 100 years of age. There are also those who are involved in accidents. We do not handle paper work for the organs used for transplants, organs for clinical usage, at the hospital. That’s not controlled by us, it’s by the health agency. The number of donations witnessed by us varies from a dozen to more than 20 every year, more or less. There are kidneys, livers, and other organs, there are all sorts.
(Recording 43 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf43)
October 13, 2020, Office of Red Cross Society of Hainan Province: The number of donations is not large, just a few a year, about 10 cases.
(Recording 44 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf44)
October 14, 2020, Organ Donation Office of Red Cross Society of Anhui Province: When a person donates organs, the organs can be obtained only after the donor dies. Not all donated organs can be used for clinical purposes; what you were talking about are the kind obtained by hospitals in the ICU. There were a few dozens of donations this year, including corneas, kidneys, and livers, for a total of about 40 cases, which could be used for clinical transplantation.
(Recording 47 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf47)
November 3, 2020, Donation Office of Red Cross Society of Sichuan Province: There are approximately 100 donors a year. This is the total donation number for the whole province, there are very few donors.
(Recording 57 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf57)
November 6, 2020, Organ Donation Office of Red Cross Society of Ningxia Hui Autonomous Region: I think there are very few, and there are more in developed areas. There are few in places like Ningxia and Gansu. We have very few in Ningxia. We had one last year. The population is small here, and they are minority ethnic groups. When there is a road accident, it’s very troublesome; many of the minority ethnic people won’t allow donations.
(Recording 59 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf59)
November 11, 2020, Donation Office of Red Cross Society of Qinghai Province: Qinghai started promoting this work in 2019. As of now there have been four completed donations, and three of those are liver donations.
(Recording 61 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf61)
November 20, 2020, Organ Donation Office of Red Cross Society of Liaoning Province: Dalian has only about 20 donors a year. This year, the whole province has 30, or maybe 40, donations. Organ donations that are not coordinated and witnessed by Red Cross coordinators are illegal.
(Recording 63 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf63)
December 16, 2020, Organ Donation Office of Red Cross Society in Wuhan: Donating livers and receiving livers are all done in hospitals and transplant centers. People who wish to donate only register with our Red Cross. There are hardly any organ donations in Wuhan City now, and they are all being done at the provincial level of Hubei.
(Recording 69 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf69)
December 21,2020, Organ Donation Office of Guizhou Province Red Cross Society: We have had only several dozens of donations in the past two years. What they donate are almost all either the liver or the kidney.
(Recording 66 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf66)
December 29, 2020,Organ Donations Office of Yangpu District Red Cross Society, Shanghai: The registration and actually happening of organ donation are two different concepts. When someone registers, it’ll be calculated when he will pass away. This can’t be calculated. And can this data be used? There needs to be a medical assessment of whether or not the organ can be used when the person passes away. We, the Red Cross, don’t take care of hospitals. The tertiary level A hospitals are not within the responsibilities of coordinators from district Red Cross.
(Recording 68 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf68)
June 8, 2021, Doctor from Wuyi Hospital of Chinese Medicine, Jiangmen City, Guangdong Province: Actually this surgery is hard to do, it’s that we don’t have the qualification, we have no access to kidney supplies. Zhongshan Hospital has access to kidney supplies, the kidneys they obtained are good in quality, and they have more sources. Organs were easy to get in the past, they were all from those unidentified bodies, or from those in prison and executed. Organs from those were relatively easy to get. The big guys in Guangzhou: Kidney supplies are scarce in the past several years. To start with, there have been no donations, first, there are no donations; secondly, there are very few those that are unidentified; and then the kidneys from those in prison and executed.
(Recording 76 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf76)
IV. Organ Harvesting from Living Donor
March 3, 2022, Nurse with the Kidney Transplantation Department of Shaanxi Provincial People's Hospital: Doesn’t that person have two kidneys? You are just one person, but the other half of the kidney needs to have a recipient too, only then can this kidney be taken out. Basically, when we do kidney transplant, we always do it for two patients simultaneously.
Question: Oh, so you have to find such a person, remove the kidney here and transplant it there, is that what you mean?
Answer: Ah, right, right, right. You think about it: if you only picked one here, wouldn't that one be wasted?
Question: So you need to find two people, right? After matching, you’ll do both at the same time, right?
Nurse: Ah yes.
Question: Isn’t it true that it came from the stock?
Nurse: Well... it's not like that. It's all fresh. For example, if someone had a car accident or something like that, and he was in a brain-dead state… it’s not that the kidney is removed only after the person is dead, rather, it’s when the person is dying... that is, for example, if he gives up treatment or something like that, his kidney will be taken out before he dies. If it’s frozen...the kidney is definitely not very good.
Investigator: ...and the surgery is safe, right?
Answer: Ah yes.
Question: ...where does this kidney come from?
Answer: This... we usually have it even in small hospitals. For example, if someone has a car accident or something, and they give up treatment, they will give our superiors... will give our department a call.
Question: More than 100 cases a year, right?
Nurse: More or less.
(Recording 93 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf93)
V. Organs From Falun Gong Practitioners
July 1, 2020, When I asked for organs of Falun Gong (practitioners), the Medical Office of the First Affiliated Hospital of Zhejiang University told me to come to the outpatient clinic.
Question: Ah, but my friend told me, I forgot how many years, he said quite a few years ago, he used the (organ from) judicial department. He said I should ask straightforwardly...it was Doctor Zheng who did it for him...he told me to tell Dr. Zheng out front that I want those from the judicial department, those who practice… something, who practice Falun Gong. They don’t smoke or drink, and (their organs) are good. He told me to get this kind (of organ) no matter how much I have to pay for it.
Answer: Ah, I am not clear about it.
Question: If it is possible?
Answer: About this, you can ask Liver Transplant. When you come to register for the outpatient clinic, you can ask about the liver source. I've never heard of it.
(Recording 2 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf2)
September 9, 2020, Doctor from the Urology Department of the First Hospital of Jilin University
Question: We want the organ from Falun Gong practitioners who don’t smoke or drink. That quality is the best. I just want that kind, even though it’s more expensive.
Answer: For that, I can’t be of any help. If you want, you contact our director directly. I can’t be of any help, I can’t be of any help. We don’t have the authority to handle these things. It’s our director who handles these things. You contact him if you need it. Now our department chief is Director Zhou Honglan. He’s in charge of the teams here.
(Recording 100 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf100)
September 10, 2020, Director Huang Xianen of Kidney Transplant, Third Affiliated Hospital of Guangzhou Medical University: It is possible to have organs from Falun Gong practitioners. Let’s talk about it later, okay?
Question: I just wanted the kind that practices Falun Gong, the ones that don’t smoke and drink. For those, I am willing to pay any amount. Is that possible?
Answer: Oh, okay, okay, okay. Let’s talk about it later, okay?
(Recording 27 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf27)
September 22, 2020, Dr. Guo Chenxu, Department of Urology, Datong City Third People's Hospital
Question: Can I find a judicial organ donor who doesn't smoke or drink?
Answer: Currently, it's not possible. Leave me your phone number.
Question: I just want a Qi Gong practitioner's kidney source.
Answer: I'll mention this to Director Wei. If there's a suitable kidney source, we'll contact you immediately, okay? We are all involved in kidney transplants. I am not the director; Director Wei is in charge.
(Recording 32 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf32)
September 30, 2020, Zhang Yuhong, Chief Surgeon of the Organ Transplantation Center of Shanxi Provincial People's Hospital
Question: I just want the kind (of donor) that doesn’t smoke or drink.
Answer: Okay, let’s talk in person, and let’s make an appointment for us to meet.
Question: I just want (a donor that doesn’t) smoke or drink, but practices Falun Gong. I am willing to pay any amount for it.
Answer: Don’t say this for now. Don’t say it now. Let’s talk about it when we meet.
Question: Just find me a Falun Gong liver (donor) as soon as possible, then I won’t make any more calls.
Answer: Pretty much so, all of these questions of yours, I can answer them. I’ll answer all of them for you, okay?
(Recording 39 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf39)
VI. Compilation Of Investigation Recordings
(Chronically arranged)
Investigation Recording 1.
Investigation Respondent: Doctor with Urological Surgery, Qinghai University-affiliated Hospital said there was only one living donor in many years in Qinghai.
Investigation date: July 1, 2020（+86-9716230853）
Summary
1.There was only one case of donation for many years now in Qinghai, this kind of living donor.
2.Kidney source involves the consent of patients. Is there anyone willing to donate it?
3.Question: Did you say the people here are more conservative, not willing to donate?
Answer: That’s indeed the case. The kidney source is definitely scarce.
4.Many kidneys were obtained from prisoners in the past.
(Recording 1 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf1)
Investigation Recording 2.
Investigation Respondent: Doctor with Medical Office of First Affiliated Hospital of Zhejiang University
Investigation Date: July 1, 2020 (+86-571-87236625)
Summary: When I asked for organs of Falun Gong (practitioners), the Medical Office of the First Affiliated Hospital of Zhejiang University told me to come to the outpatient clinic.
1.There are now many more doctors in our hepatobiliary and pancreatic surgery division who conduct such transplants.
2.Patients cannot access the liver transplant platform , we cannot either, only the authorized personnel can see it.
3.Question: My friend told me to tell Dr. Zheng out front I want organs from those who practice Falun Gong.
Answer: Ah, I am not clear about it. You can ask Liver Transplant. When you go to the outpatient clinic, you can ask about the liver source.
(Recording 2 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf2)
Investigation Recording 3.
Investigation Respondent: Nurse with kidney transplant ward of the 923rd Hospital of the People's Liberation Army (formerly the 303rd Hospital)
Investigation Date: July 7, 2020 (+86-7712870605)
Summary
1. If there are any surgeries here, we will do them.
2. There are kidney transplant surgeries today. No doctor can answer the call now. The doctors are all doing the surgeries.
3.If you were lucky, you could (get an organ donor) in a month.
4. Due to the pandemic this year, we cannot do that many, but there should be 100 cases.
(Recording 3 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf3)
Investigation Recording 4.
Investigation Respondent: Surgeon with Liver Transplant at the 303 Hospital of the People's Liberation Army
Investigation Date: July 8, 2020 (+86-771-2870635)
Summary:
1. (We can do) liver transplantation, but we have fewer surgeries right now. You can go to the Second Affiliated Hospital of Guangxi University for the procedure.
2. Some of core team members in their hospital also came from our hospital.
3. Getting transplantation done in their hospital might be earlier and more convenient.
(Recording 4 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf4)
Investigation Recording 5.
Investigation Respondent: Nurse with Liver Transplant, Center for Transplant Medicine, Wuhan University
Investigation Date: July 8, 2020 (+86-2767812785)
Summary:
1. We don't give out doctors’ phone numbers. According to hospital rules, the telephone numbers of directors or professors cannot be given out.
2.Question: It was mentioned on the Internet that seven surgeries were performed in two days, so how long had they waited?
Answer: They were all arranged by the director and the professor, so please ask the director and the professor for details.
3.Question: How long had the last surgery patient waited?
Answer: Oh, it depends, sometimes half a month.
4.The costs for liver transplant are generally around 800,000 to 1 million yuan.
5.Organ harvesting and transplant surgery for the recipient patient are carried out simultaneously.
6.We have a lot of teams, and each team is further divided into many groups!
(Recording 5 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf5)
Investigation Recording 6.
Investigation Respondent: Nurse with the Liver Ward of the Transplantation Department of Tongji Hospital Affiliated to Huazhong University of Science and Technology
Investigation Date: July 14, 2020 (+86- 27-83665223)
1. Question: Did you do a lot this year?
Answer: Yes, we did.
2. Question: Ah, roughly how much does the liver surgery cost?
Answer: The cost for liver surgery is 600,000 yuan to say the least.
3. Question: What about the kidney surgery, may I ask?
Answer: The surgery plus hospitalization fee is 400,000 yuan.
4.Question: How many cases has your hospital done in one...one year, that is, this year? I mean the liver surgeries?
Answer: About this, telephone consultations are not allowed. If you have any questions... you can just go to the outpatient clinic for consultation. Telephone consultations are not allowed and I do surgeries every day.
(Recording 6 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf6)
Investigation Recording 7.
Investigation Respondent: Liu Yu, surgeon with Liver Transplant, Beijing Chaoyang Hospital
Investigation Date: July 16, 2020 （+86- 13911062788）
Summary
1. Liu Yu: I’ve left the General Hospital of the Armed Police Force. Come to see me at Beijing Chaoyang Hospital.
2. We haven’t stopped during the pandemic. We have been doing it all along. We did one yesterday, and had four cases done in three days.
3. Question: If things go well, can it be done in one month?
Answer: It should be. I think it should be.
4. The fee is around 800,000 yuan.
(Recording 7 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf7)
Investigation Recording 8.
Investigation Respondent: Wang Guangce, Director of Kidney Transplantation Department of First Affiliated Hospital of Henan University of Traditional Chinese Medicine
Investigation Date: July 22, 2020 (+86- 0371-66251951)
Summary
1. Director Wang Guangce sits at Urology clinic in the morning of Monday and Thursday.
2.Doing a transplant is a very complicated issue, and many things need to be discussed in person, not on the phone.
3. I have been doing (transplant surgeries) for more than 30 years and have done nearly 2,000 cases.
(Recording 8 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf8)
Investigation Recording 9.
Investigation Respondent: Customer Service and kidney transplant doctor of Shanghai United Family Hospital
Investigation Date: July 27, 2020 (+86-21 2216 3900)
Summary
1. You can ask doctors from Renji (Hospital) to do it, and it will be even faster than in Renji (Hospital).
2. I have never done it before and want to start it, but I don’t have the qualifications.
3. The price is more expensive than public hospitals.
4. We have a green channel with Renji (Hospital).
5. We are a foreign-funded private hospital.
(Recording 9 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf9)
Investigation Recording 10.
Investigation Respondent: Oriental Hepatobiliary Surgery Department, Third Affiliated Hospital of Naval Medical University
Investigation Date: August 4, 2020 (+86-21-65564166)
Summary
1. There are patients coming from abroad, your situation is not bad.
2. Register to see Director Yang, Yang Jiamei.
3. Try to ask for the private contact information of the doctor. We are unable to reach him.
4. I can't tell you because we have phone recording here.
(Recording 10 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf10)
Investigation Recording 11.
Investigation Respondent: Doctor with Kidney Transplant Ward of Department of Urology, First Affiliated Hospital of Anhui Medical University
Investigation Date: August 17, 2020 (+86- 551-62923310)
Summary
1. If you go directly to Director Liao Guiyi’s outpatient clinic on Thursday afternoon, you can definitely get registered without taking a nucleic acid test.
2. Question: If we want hospitalization, is there a shortage of beds? Answer: Yes, there is a shortage of beds.
(Liao Guiyi, deputy chief surgeon and associate professor of the Department of Urology, the First Affiliated Hospital of Anhui Medical University.)
(Recording 11 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf11)
Investigation Recording 12.
Investigation Respondent: Doctor from Jinling Hospital (Nephrology Hospital), Affiliated to Nanjing University School of Medicine
Investigation Date: August 18, 2020 (+86- 25-80862311)
Summary
1. Download HaoDaifu software online, and then make an appointment with Cheng Dongrui on the website. That’s it.
2. Question: So Director Cheng is the best (in surgery) in your hospital now, right?
Answer: Yes, because he is the doctor in charge of kidney sources. Do you understand?
3. If you want to do it with us, you need to pay a security of RMB 120,000 yuan, as a deposit.
4. There is a severe shortage of beds for transplantation. The doctor directly works at the ward, so he knows how many beds there are and how many patients can be admitted, and all aspects of the surgery...are under his control.
5. We don’t have any data disclosing how many kidney transplants are performed in a year. We can only tell you that kidney transplant surgeries are very mature.
6. Question: How many years have you been conducting kidney transplantation?
Answer: If you don’t believe in our hospital’s technology, just go to Baidu and search for it yourself. Our hospital is already known nationwide. You can search on Baidu. I don’t know how many kidney transplant surgeries our hospital conducts in a year. No... no doctor will tell us how many kidney transplant surgeries conducted in a year.
(Recording 12 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf12)
Investigation Recording 13.
Investigation Respondent: Nurse with Liver Transplant Surgery, Organ Transplantation Department, Qilu Hospital.
Investigation Date: August 19, 2020 (+86 53182166691)
Summary.
1. Question: How long do we have to wait for liver transplant?
Answer: You have to ask the doctor about this. I can’t tell you, you know? Ask the teacher at the nurse station.
2. Question: If we go to your hospital for transplant, will we be admitted? Are there hospital beds available?
Answer: You probably won’t, there are already many patients waiting.
(Recording 13 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf13)
Investigation Recording 14.
Investigation Respondent: Nurse from Lingnan Hospital, Affiliated Hospital of Zhongshan University
Investigation Date: August 20, 2020 （+86 2082179000）
Summary
1. Question: Is there a shortage of beds there? I mean, are there many liver transplant patients?
Answer: Yes, there are a lot.
2. The doctors in our liver transplant department are all doing surgeries.
(Recording 14 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf14)
Investigation Recording 15.
Investigation Respondent: Nurse with kidney Transplant Ward of Beijing Chaoyang Hospital
Investigation Date: August 21, 2020 (+86- 10-85231457)
Summary
1.The most we did in a year are more than 200 cases.
2. All the doctors in our kidney transplant ward can do it.
(Recording 15 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf15)
Investigation Recording 1.
Investigation Respondent: Nurse with Kidney Transplant in the Department of Urology, China-Japan Friendship Hospital
Investigation Date: 2020-08-25 (+86 84206193)
Summary
1. Either Zhou Xiaofeng or Jin Zhenshan will do. They both handle kidney transplantation.
2. Nearly one hundred cases per year.
(Recording 16 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf16)
Investigation Recording 17.
Investigation Respondent: Nurse with Kidney Transplant Ward, Shanghai Renji Hospital (West Section)
Investigation Date: August 26, 2020（+86 21-5875234）
Summary
1.We are full now, the ward is full.
2.We are transplant ward here and we only accept kidney transplant patients.
3.Question: Do you have kidney transplant operations every day? Do you have new patients every day?
Answer: I can’t tell you this. I can’t tell you this on the phone. The doctor will talk to you in details.
(Recording 17 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf17)
Investigation Recording 18.
Investigation Respondent: Nurse with the Office of Doctors for Liver Transplant at Beijing Friendship Hospital
Investigation Date: August 30, 2020 (+86 10-80838162)
Monday to Friday, morning and afternoon, you can see Director Zhu or Director Sun, either will do.
We now perform liver transplants every week.
Normally, if there is no pandemic, there would be about 200 cases a year.
(Recording 18 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf18)
Investigation Recording 19.
Investigation Respondent: Nurse at the Liver Transplant Ward of Beijing Chaoyang Hospital
Investigation Date: September 1, 2020 （+86 1085231501）
Summary
1.There are a total of six teams, all led by the director. Director He performs all surgeries himself, that is, Director He is the primary surgeon, and the others are all assisting him. All six teams are led by him.
2.If you're a bit lucky, you might come in the morning and have a donor in the afternoon.
3.Our liver transplant outpatient clinic has always been open, never been closed.
(Recording 19 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf19)
Investigation Recording 20.
Investigation Respondent: Nurse at the Kidney Transplant Central Switchboard, Beijing Friendship Hospital Tongzhou Branch
Investigation Date: September 01, 2020 (+86-1080834411)
Summary:
1. Director Sun Wen sees patients at the clinic of our Tongzhou Branch for half a day every Tuesday. Lin Jun is also a director.
2.Surgeries will not stop during the pandemic; hospitalization can help control the spread.
3. Here in Tongzhou, there is a kidney transplant department,and Xicheng, too, has a kidney transplant department.
4. Director Jie Zelin, Wang Qiang, Liu Zhi, and Guo Hongbo are all doctors specializing in kidney transplants.
(Recording 20 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf20)
Investigation Recording 21.
Investigation Respondent: Person on Duty in Organ Donation Office of Zhejiang Provincial Red Cross Society
September 1, 2020（+86- 57185043999）
Summary
1.Organ distribution is made through hospital system instead of the Red Cross Society.
2.We act as witnesses. It is the coordinator from the hospital who will go find and communicate with organ donors.
3.You family members will never know how organs are found and donated. We don’t know, either. And we don’t know what kind of accident it is and when organs are available.
Last year we probably had more than two hundreds donations.
(Recording 21 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf21)
Investigation Recording 22.
Investigation Respondent: Staff at the Human Organ Donation Center of the Red Cross Society of Heilongjiang
September 3, 2020 (+86 45182716963)
Summary
1.The only hospital here where you can get a liver transplant is the First Affiliated Hospital of Harbin Medical University.
2.Telephone number of the Organ Donation Office at Medical University First Hospital: 451 53602726.
3.We, the Red Cross, are only responsible for the registration and witnessing of organ donations.
4.I cannot answer that because I cannot access that system, and I don't know about it.
5.Only the First Affiliated Hospital of Harbin Medical University has that information, as they perform these surgeries and know the yearly statistics. They can answer your questions.
6.How many we have in a year, and whether you can get on the list, are all information those people who manage the organ donation distribution system know. They have the data. We cannot access that system. Do you understand?
(Recording 22 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf22)
Investigation Recording 23.
Investigation Respondent: Nurse with Liver Transplant Department, HuaZhong University of Science and Technology Affiliated Union Hospital
Investigation Date: September 3, 2020 （+86 45182716963）
Summary
1.Just make an appointment to see Professor Xiong; he is in charge of this area.
2.We cannot decide on the liver source; it is allocated uniformly from the Red Cross.
3.Surgeries have been ongoing during the pandemic.
4.There are many doctors in the transplant team who can perform surgeries.
(Recording 23 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf23)
Investigation Recording 24.
Investigation Respondent: Nurse with Kidney Transplant Department, Guangxi PLA 303 Hospital
Investigation Date: September 7, 2020. ( +86 7712870605）
Summary
1. Come on Monday, Wednesday or Friday to sign up to see Dong JiangHui, Director Dong;
2.For early stage expenses, prepare RMB 200K to 300K.
2. For early-stage expenses, prepare RMB 200 YU to 300K;
3. Doing it all along during the pandemic;
4. How many cases did Director Dong do this year? No way to tell you the statistics.
5. There are a few dozen kidney transplant patients at our hospital ward currently;
(Recording 24 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf24)
Investigation Recording 25.
Investigator Respondent: Duty staff at the Red Cross Society of Chengdu City
Investigator Date: September 8th, 2020 （+86-2861884676）
Summary
1.Nowadays, the proportion of kidney donation is relatively small nationwide.
2.Donation conditions are strict: A. Under 65 years old; B. Accidental death, such as brain death caused by car accident, etc., rather than death due to disease; C: Voluntary donation; D. Blood matching was successful; E. Transplant “initial match” rejection period.
3. The donated organ is registered with us, the Red Cross Society.
4. Here in Chengdu, there are about one hundred donations a year.
5.Organ distribution is done nationwide and even abroad. That is, when there are donations here, they will be distributed abroad.
6. Where the organs are allocated and which patients they are used on are the responsibilities of the hospital.
7. There is a green channel at Qinghai Airport. We have it here too.
8. The OPO of the Red Cross and that of the hospital are not together and operate separately. The OPS of the hospital has its own system.
9. All donors for transplantation should register with the Red Cross and fill out a form. For those who died in the ICU and did not register to donate during their lifetime, and the hospital directly used the donations, it’s required a form be filled out through the Red Cross Society.
10. When a hospital performs an operation, it will notify the Red Cross Society, which will rush over to help the hospital with registration procedure.
11. Donations have increased in the past two years, and there had been fewer before. Well, if you think about it, from 2017 or 2018,up until now, there have been only... four or five hundred people,... four or five hundred people.
12. There used to be (Falun Gong donors), but not anymore. Well, the kind of thing you mentioned existed before, and it didn't go through the Red Cross Society. But now that it's been canceled, it's basically registered with us.
13. The chance of organ "matching" is very small in the first place. In addition, there are very few sources of donation overall, it’s more...you think about it, there are very few sources of donation in the first place, plus, you need to find matching ones within the few sources, so there will be very very few successful ones.
(Recording 25 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf25)
Investigation Recording 26.
Investigation Respondent: Doctor with Panyu Branch of Second Hospital Affiliated to Guangzhou University of Medical Science
Investigation Date: September 8th, 2020. （+86-2039195847）
Summary
1.My estimate is, it is very hard to do it within a month;
2.You are doing it during the pandemic;
3.Right now, it’s Director Chen Zheng who’s doing it. Pretty much it is always him doing it.
4.We are doing a few hundred cases a year, it is not all done by him, for sure there are other doctors doing it.
5.The topic of Falun Gong is not avoided.
(Chen Zheng, Director of the Organ Transplant Center of the Second Hospital Affiliated to Guangzhou University of Medical Science, and Secretary of the Fourth Communist Party Branch at Panyu)
(Recording 26 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf26)
Investigation Recording 27.
Investigation Respondent: Director Huang Xianen of Kidney Transplant, Third Affiliated Hospital of Guangzhou Medical University
Investigation Date: September 10, 2020 (86-20-81292163)
Summary
1. We did more than 40 cases this year.
2. Question: I just wanted the kind that practices Falun Gong, the ones that don’t smoke and drink. For those, I am willing to pay any amount. Is that possible?
Answer: Oh, okay, okay, okay. Let’s talk about it later, okay?
Recording 27 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf27)
Investigation Recording 28.
Investigation Respondent: Duty Staff of the Red Cross Society of Anshan City
Investigation Date: September 15, 2020 (86-412-2516177)
Summary
1. There is not one case of organ donation this year.
2. There were very few before. Because the kidneys that could be used after people died were very few, it was not like the kind with the young people. And basically, the organs we can use here are all corneas. And what we have are basically people of old age, and when people of old age die, their kidneys basically can’t be used.
3. This year the province has a new rule: the eye tissues are now all handled by the Health and Family Planning Committee. And the Health and Family Planning Committees of various cities have set up their own eye tissues banks, and the organs basically belong to their eye tissues.
4. There are very few people coming to us making organ donations. Organs from people of natural death cannot be used. If the hospital does not come to us for donation witness, we won’t know it. They are all unnatural deaths, and we have very few this kind.
5. And we are not clear about where exactly the hospital has taken the organs.
(Recording 28 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf28)
Investigation Recording 29.
Investigation Respondent: Nurse with Liver Transplant, Jiangxi Province People's Hospital
Investigation Date: September 17, 2020, 11:43:06 (+86 79187721253)
Summary:
1. Director Xu performs at least two or three liver transplants a week. This year, he has performed fifty or sixty liver transplant surgeries.
2. Surgeries were suspended for one month during the pandemic, and have been ongoing since then.
(Recording 29 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf29)
Investigation Recording 30.
Investigation Respondent: Liu Yueying, Registration Office of Liver Transplant, the People’s Hospital of Jiangxi Province
Investigation Date: September 17, 2020 （+86-791-8772141）
Summary
1. As of now, 50 cases have been done this year. There should be dozens of cases done last year. Dozens of cases were done every year.
2. Now it’s still Director Xu Zhidan that does liver transplant. He started doing it in 2012.
3. Investigator: I also want to make it clear that I want an organ from a Falun Gong practitioner who doesn’t smoke or drink. I want this kind. I’ll pay any amount you ask for. Liu Yueying: Ah, okay. Then when you talk to Director Xu face to face, remember to mention this to him, okay?
4. For liver transplantation in patients with liver cirrhosis, one needs to prepare 500,000 or 600,000 rmb yuan. The provincial medical insurance can be used, but not for liver source fee.
(Recording 30 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf30)
Investigation Recording 31.
Investigation Respondent: Nurse with Kidney Transplant Department of Sichuan Provincial People’s Hospital
Investigation Date: September 17, 2020 (86-28-87394932)
Summery
1.A few teams take turns doing it. When it’s a team’s turn, that team will do it, and it is not certain.
2. Here with us, many are done by Huaxi Hospital and us, and we mainly do kidney transplants. And it couldn’t be only one or two cases done in a year, at least dozens of cases. Even around 100 cases were possible. It couldn’t be one or two cases only, as you have said.
3. This kidney transplant is very special.
(Recording 31 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf31)
Investigation Recording 32.
Investigation Respondent: Dr. Guo Chenxu, Department of Urology, Datong City Third People's Hospital
Investigation Date: September 22, 2020 (+86-0352-5556292)
Summary:
1. The cellphone number for organ coordinator Guo Chenxu: 15536837362.
2. It will be doctors specializing in kidney transplants, rather than doctors with the Urology Department, that will take care of it. There are special doctors taking care of it.
3. Question: I don't mind spending money; I just want a good kidney source for a quick transplant.
Answer: If there is a suitable kidney source, if the matching is right, the transplant can be done immediately.
Question: Can I find a judicial organ donor who doesn't smoke or drink?
Answer: Currently, it's not possible. Leave me your phone number.
Question: I just want a Qi Gong practitioner's kidney source. If you are sure you can find this type of kidney source, I am willing to pay up to two million RMB yuan.
Answer: I'll mention this to Director Wei. If there's a suitable kidney source, we'll contact you immediately, okay?
4. We are all involved in kidney transplants. I am not the director; Director Wei is in charge.
(Recording 32 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf32)
Investigation Recording 33
Investigation Respondent: Nurse, Liver Transplant, First Hospital of Shanxi Medical University
Investigation Date: September 23, 2020（+86-351-4639507）
Summary
1. Liver transplants are mainly performed by President Xu, Xu Jun.
2. Our hospital has been doing the operation during the epidemic.
3. He just came, doing this work. And these 10 cases were all done by him.
4. A lot has been done this year, many have been done.
5. We are the only hospital in Shanxi that does a lot now.
6. Dr. Shi Zhiyong with the liver transplant team is in charge of liver transplant. If you have questions in this area, this doctor provides answers.
(Recording 33 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf33)
Investigation Recording 34.
Investigation Respondent: Staff of Huangpu District Red Cross Society of Shanghai
Investigation Date: September 23, 2020 (Tel:+86-21-63365880)
Summary:
1. What is the Red Cross Society for? It’s for calling on people to make donations. Why is there such an energetic promotion? It’s because there are too few donations.
2. The number of healthy and useful donated organs is really very very few, the probability of having a matched organ is very small.
3. Many of those involved in car accident are not willing to make donations. It’s not like, there are car accidents every day. But when there happen to be car accidents, people may not want to make donations.
4. Question: How many donations are there this year?
Answer: None, none at all.
5. Question: According to Shanghai authorities, in 2017 there were many traffic accidents involving food and merchandise deliverers, 2.5 persons per day.
Answer: Don’t listen to their nonsense!
6. That is, there are many traffic accidents, every day there are many people who will die in traffic accidents in Shanghai; but those who are willing to make donations are between far and few, hardly any.
7. Only those who die of accidental death and are healthy can be used, otherwise they are useless.
8. Question: Organs from Falun Gong practitioners were used in the past, are they still being used?
Answer: About this, we can’t comment on it. This is within their system, and you shouldn’t hold any hope, because you don’t have this capability and you are incapable of doing this thing, and neither will be any one who would open a back door for you.
9. Hospitals in Shanghai, such as Oriental Hepatobiliary Hospital, and Guangzhou Zhongshan Hospital, have a better chance of getting more liver supplies.
(Recording 34 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf34)
Investigation Recording 35.
Investigation Respondent: Staff on Duty with Red Cross Society in Xuhui District of Shanghai
Investigation Date: September 23, 2020 (Tel: +86-21-64647403)
Summary:
1. We do not have organs here that can be provided to hospitals for transplant, none for years now.
2. We have body donations here, but not organ donations. Organ donations are all handled by the city red cross society.
3. Many of them are older people, or sick older people. Their organs are in general not to be used, and their bodies are to be used for medical research or teaching.
(Recording 35 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf35)
Investigation Recording 36.
Investigation Respondent: Nurse Wang Lixia, Kidney Transplantation Division, Second Affiliated Hospital of Hainan Medical College
Investigation Date: September 24, 2020 （+86 898-66809311）
Summary:
1. I don’t know about the waiting list. It’s not us, nurses, doing the waiting list. There is someone doing it. It is nurse Wang Lixia.
2. I don’t know either about how long it will be on the waiting list before the surgery can be done.
3. Director Jiang and Director Zeng are both with with Tongji Hospital. They come here to do operations. The division is now headed by Director Jiang.
4. We have been doing kidneys and livers, as well as lungs. In this month, we have done over 20 operations. So the beds are a bit tight.
5. President Wang, Director Jiang, Director Zeng, and Director Zhang are all doing it.
(Recording 36 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf36)
Investigation Recording 37.
Investigation Respondent: Nurse with Kidney Ward, Hunan Yiyang Central Hospital
Investigation Date: September 25, 2020 （+86-737-4230527）
Summary:
1. About more than 100 cases are done a year.
2. Director Xiong, Director Jin are both doing it.
3. For a kidney transplant, about 310,000 yuan are needed.
(Recording 37 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf37)
Investigation Recording 38.
Investigation Respondent: Staff on Duty at Jiangxi Provincial Red Cross Society
Investigation Date: September 25, 2020 （+86 79186251783）
Summary
1. Organ donations were made after citizens are deceased, not when they are alive. So we cannot be sure. Although we have many volunteers who are willing to donate their organs when they die, we do not know when they will pass away, or when there will be liver supply.
2. Question: Among the successful donations, how many were used clinically? Answer: I am sorry, this I cannot tell you.
3. This year the whole province has over 100 successful donations. But after the donations, whether these livers could be used, or where they have been used, we are not sure. We only witnessed the public benefits of the donation process and their consistency with the donors’ wishes, as well as the memorial service afterwards.
4. Question: The hospitals said there are donors fees. Answer: That is between you and the hospitals. We Red Cross Society does not charge any fees. We do not have any contacts with the patients (recipients).
5. Eventually will the donation be successful? Nobody can tell. Only healthy people can register as a donor. But when will they pass away, we cannot track them. We cannot make phone calls and ask if you have passed away, or if you are in that state? So donor registration and successful donation are not necessarily connected.
6. We Chinese have such a special mindset: We do not want to donate organs. I think that’s our special mindset.
7. There are few organ donations. It’s not that we don’t do it. We cannot go and grab the bodies. That is the reality now.
8. Question: The hospitals have their organs channel, but the organs for transplantation all have to go through you. So you know the most, is that right? Isn’t that so?
Answer: It is not all like that. Sometimes it’s the hospitals that notify us.
Question: Those are organs that they found by themselves. They would also notify you and fill out some forms, right? Is that so?
Answer: You ask me this way, it is really hard for me to answer. I can only say: Our law stipulates that donation of organs from the deceased must go through the Red Cross Society. I can only tell you that.
9. Question: The hospitals have other channels?
Answer: They have other channels or not, I have no control.
(Recording 38 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf38)
Investigation Recording 39.
Investigation Respondent: Zhang Yuhong, Chief Surgeon of the Organ Transplantation Center of Shanxi Provincial People's Hospital
Investigation Date: September 30, 2020 (+86-13753117182)
Summary
1. Question: We don’t care about money at all. We want a young (donor), and please check the quality of the liver source.
Answer: Let’s do it this way. You come over and we talk face to face. Don’t talk to me on the phone. Come over to the hospital if you don’t mind.
2. Question: I’ll just see you, I won’t go looking for anyone else. Yes, I want the kind (of donor) that doesn’t smoke or drink.
Answer: Okay, let’s talk in person, and let’s make an appointment for us to meet.
3. Question: I want (a donor that doesn’t) smoke or drink, the kind that practices Falun Gong. I am willing to pay any amount for it, one million RMB yuan or two million RMB yuan...
Answer: Don’t say this now. Don’t say it now. Let’s talk about it when we meet.
4. Question: Just find me a Falun Gong liver (donor) as soon as possible, then I won’t make any more calls... If you can ensure the quality, I will...
Answer: Pretty much so, all of these questions of yours, I can answer them. I’ll answer all of them for you, okay?
5. Eleven liver transplants have been done this year, transplants were not affected by the pandemic.
(Recording 39 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf39)
Investigation Recording 40.
Investigation Respondent: Surgeon with Liver Transplant at the 303 Hospital of the People's Liberation Army
Investigation Date: September 8, 2020 (+86-771-2870635)
Summary:
1. Go to the Second Affiliated Hospital of Guangxi Medical University and line up there. It’s faster there. There are more liver sources available now, so the operation may be faster.
2. The Second Affiliated Hospital of Guangxi Medical University is currently doing a lot and has many donors.
3. You take my advice, and you won’t regret it!
4. You don’t need to ask why, I don’t know why either!
5. Director Wang Hongliang and Director Dong Jianhui are doing it.
(Recording 40 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf40)
Investigation Recording 41.
Investigation Respondent: Gong, a nurse with kidney Transplant of Urology Department at the First People’s Hospital of Changzhou City
Investigation Date: October 5, 2020 (Tel:+86-519-68872071)
Summary:
1.About 60-70 surgeries can be done a year.
2. Xue Dong and Fan Min are both doing kidney transplant.
3. Transplant surgeries weren’t suspended during the pandemic, they were not affected.
4. We charge RMB 120,000 (USD16,000) as fees for kidney source.
(Recording 41 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf41)
Investigation Recording 42.
Investigation Respondent: Director Ding Hongwen of the First Hospital Affiliated to Jinan University, Guangdong (Huangzhou Overseas Chinese Hospital)
Investigation Date: October 11, 2020 (Tel:+86-20-38688303)
Summary:
1. The best case scenario is less than a month. If your matching is done well and if you are in luck, we’ll notify you within one month. If your matching is not done well, it may take one year, or half a year, it’s all possible.
2. Since now the donor qualities are not that good, I’ll do it if it’s good, and I won’t if it is not.
3. We are doing it selectively, so we don’t do that many. If you want a hospital that does a lot, you may go to the Zhongshan Hospital, they are doing a lot.
4. We don’t want the tortured ones.
5. Question: We don’t mind paying more money, are you able to find good kidney source? Answer: Let me tell you, this is not like before when it was done through the judicial system. In that case, there sure were, but now it’s hard to say, doing it through donations.
6. Are they all from donations? Most of those who had cerebral hemorrhage are older folks, definitely not suitable for transplant surgery. Those who had a sudden bursting of cerebral blood vessels, or those who were injured in a car accident, or those who were young...because there are fewer car accidents now. You know there are fewer car accidents after the ban on motorcycles.
(Recording 42 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf42)
Investigation Recording 43.
Summary:
1. The responsibility of the Red Cross Society is to promote and motivate donation registrations.
2. The registration at the Red Cross Society is not to register organs, rather, it’s to register the will of volunteers who want to make organ donations. We don’t have organs here; if you want to wait for an organ donation, you should go to a hospital.
3. Donations are possible only when a person dies. What’s registered now is only an intent of the volunteer who wants to make donations, an intent agreeing to donate organs when the person dies. It’s not a registration for the use of the donated organs, that’s health agency’s business.
4. The large number of people who come for donation registration does not mean there are many donated organs. A healthy person will live to 70 or 80, or even 100 years of age. There are also those who are involved in accidents…
5. We do not handle paper work for the organs used for transplants, organs for clinical usage, at the hospital. That’s not controlled by us, it’s by the health agency.
6. The number of donations witnessed by us varies from a dozen to more than 20 every year, more or less. There are kidneys, livers, and other organs, there are all sorts, there are hearts as well.
7. It varies from a dozen to more than 20 each year, it’s not limited to kidneys.
8. The demand for transplant organs is extremely large and sources are extremely scarce. Whether it is the whole country or Inner Mongolia, or even the world, it is all like this.
(Recording 43 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf43)
Investigation Recording 44.
Investigation Respondent: Person on duty in the office of the Red Cross Society of Hainan Province
Investigation Date: October 13, 2020（+86-89865331824）
Summary
1.We mobilize people to donate. After the donation, how it is distributed is not our responsibility.
2.The Red Cross: Which hospital’s doctor told you to ask the Red Cross? Investigator: The No.2 Affiliated Hospital of the Medical University.”
3.The number of donations is not large, just a few a year, about 10 cases.
4.I am not very clear about how the (donated organs) are distributed. You may contact our business office about it. You can call 65321320. They handle organ donations. We are the general office here.
5.You go talk to their director, 65321310, Director Li.
(Recording 44 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf44)
Investigation Recording 45.
Investigation Respondent: Director Li of Organ Donation Office of Red Cross Society of Hainan Province
Investigation Date: October 13, 2020 （+86-89865321310）
Summary
1. Organs are not like medicines or anything, they are free, so this resource is very limited.
2. Last year, Hainan Province obtained sixty to seventy transplant organs, but there aren’t as many this year as last year.
3. Investigator: Judicial organs can go directly to the hospital as transplant donors without going through the Red Cross procedure?
Director Li: This channel, supposedly, does not go through this distribution system.
4. Investigator: You said that judicial organs don’t need to go through you, so I don’t need to go through your system, right?
Director Li: Yes, … the government now knows that some places have donation channels that are not quite...let’s put it this way, not very standardized.
5.Investigator: I can contact the doctor, and then that friend can help me contact the judiciary, so I don’t need to contact you?
Director Li: No, you ask me about this, I can’t give you an answer!
(Recording 45 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf45)
Investigation Recording 46.
Investigation Respondent: Nurse, Urology Department, Fifth Hospital Affiliated to Sun Yat-sen University
Investigation Date: October 13, 2020 （+86- 756-2528888）
Summary
1.Go see Director Wu Jiaqing. He specializes in kidney transplant. Also the well-known director of our department, Director Dai Yingbo. You make an appointment to see either Director Dai, Director Wu, or Doctor Zheng Xiaoqing, any of them will do.
2. We are not affected by the pandemic. We are doing it right now. We did two cases only last week.
3.Tan Jianming and Xu Xinjun who used to do kidney transplant before are no longer here. Currently only these three are doing it (kidney transplant).
(Recording 46 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf46)
Investigation Recording 47.
Investigation Respondent: Duty Staff with Red Cross Organ Donation Office of Anhui Province
Investigation Date: October 14, 2020 （+86- 55162999158）
Summary
1.Allocating organs is not within the authority of the hospital; it has to go through the allocation system.
2.Obtaining donated organs is possible only after someone dies, it’s unpredictable and cannot be controlled.
3.When a person donates organs, the organs can be obtained only after the donor dies.
4.Not all donated organs can be used for clinical purposes; what you were talking about are the kind obtained by hospitals in the ICU.
5.Duty staff: As for donated organs here, there haven't been many this year, there have been very few this year. There were a few dozen, and among these few dozen, they were not necessarily all kidney donations. There were also liver donations, and some may be... there were only around forty donations.
Investigator: So, the total, including corneas, livers, and kidneys, that could be used for clinical transplantation, there were about 40 of them?
Duty Staff Duty Staff: Yes, that's correct.
(Recording 47 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf47)
Investigation Recording 48.
Investigation Respondent: Liver transplant doctor at the First Affiliated Hospital of Lanzhou University
Investigation Date: October 15, 2020
Summary
1. All liver and gallbladder patients are managed here, including pre-operative, postoperative and casual care. The ones who perform the surgeries are our President Li Xun and our Director Zhang Lei.
2. Generally speaking, we have relatively fewer liver resources, and sometimes the patients have to wait for several months, sometimes longer, or even half a year, but it is not always like that. Some people wait for only 20-plus days~
3. Using Falun Gong organs? Which year was that? It depends on which year he did it. He stopped doing it in 2000s.
4.Investigator: Which year did you say that organs from Falun Gong practitioners could no longer be used?
Doctor: Didn’t I tell you just now? It used to be like that, but not any more.
(Recording 48 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf48)
Investigation Recording 49.
Investigation Respondent: Duty person with Gansu Provincial Red Cross Society
Investigation Date: October 15, 2020 (+86 9314818207)
Summary
1. We at the Red Cross are only responsible for the publicity, mobilization, and registration of organ transplants.
2. Donation depends on citizens’ awareness.
3. No organization or individual can promise you how many donations we can have this year; nor can they tell our donation status each year.
4. Investigator: How many donated organs are there that have been witnessed and certified by you?
Duty person: Well, there aren’t many, and the number of donors we audit is also very small.
(Recording 49 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf49)
Investigation Recording 50.
Investigation Respondent: Nurse with the Hepatobiliary Surgery Ward of the Third Hospital of Hebei Province Medical University
Investigation Date: October 18, 2020 （+86 311-88602079）
Summary
1. Our President Dou leads the team to perform liver transplant surgery.
2. There are six or seven liver transplant patients in the ward now.
3. Anyway, we have done more recently, probably several a week.
(Recording 50 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf50)
Investigation Recording 51.
Investigation Respondent: Nurse with Kidney Transplant Ward of Chenzhou City First People's Hospital
Investigation Date: October 19, 2020 (+86 735-2343050)
Summary
1.Nowadays there are many people in need of kidney transplant surgeries. We sometimes perform up to eight transplants a month—yes, eight transplants each month!
2.Generally, there are two surgeries per month. On average, there are usually two to four surgeries per month.
3.Dr. Xu and Dr. Gong are the only doctors who perform kidney transplants.
4.We have a special team to manage kidney sources.
(Recording 51 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf51)
Investigation Recording 52.
Investigation Respondent: Nurse with Liver Transplant Ward of the First Affiliated Hospital of Kunming Medical College
Investigation Date: October 21, 2020 (+86-871-65324888)
Summary
1. We are nurses here, and there is a special teacher in charge of transplantation.
2. You will know which director specializing in transplantation will be until after you come, because there are several doctors in charge of it.
3. It is not affected by the pandemic now.
4. There have been transplant surgeries in the past couple of days, and there are several transplant surgeries.
5. I don’t know how many have been done, it’s doctors that are doing it.
(Recording 52 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf52)
Investigation Recording 53.
Investigation Respondent: Doctor with Kidney Transplantation Office of Third Affiliated Hospital of Sun Yat-sen University
Investigation Date: October 22, 2020（+86 20 82179741）
Summary:
1.Last year, we performed over 200 surgeries.
2. It’s not affected by the pandemic, we did 20 surgeries last month.
3.Director Sun, the director of our department, is available at the clinic Mondays, Monday afternoons.
(Recording 53 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf53)
Investigation Recording 54.
Investigation Respondent: Director Lin with Kidney Transplant Ward of the Third People’s Hospital of Shenzhen City
Investigation Date: Oct. 25, 2020 (Tel: 86-755-6122333 ext. 71700)
Summary:
1. Come to the 17th floor to see Director Jiang, Director Jiang Nan.
2. Generally, about 10 surgeries a month. There could be as many as 15 surgeries, even 20 surgeries.
3. Last year, over 70 surgeries were done, close to 80 of them.
4. The pandemic has not affected us much, we’ve been doing it all along.
5. You can ask to see me, I am on the 17th floor right now. So come, we are all here.
(Recording 54 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf54)
Investigation Recording 55.
Investigation Respondent: Director Zhou Jiexue, Organ Transplant, the Second People’s Hospital of Guangdong Province
Investigation Date: October 29, 2020 (Tel: 86-20-89168095)
Summary:
1. We’ve been doing it all along recently.
2. Judicial organs? There are no more that kind, because we don’t do that now.
3. We are not doing just one, we do that many every year.
4. We have more than one team, we have three or four teams. Question: There are three or four teams? Answer: Yes, okay?
5. Question: When can I see you?
Answer: Usually we are all there, we are all working, there’s no time we don’t work.
Question: You work Saturday and Sunday too?
Answer: For Saturday or Sunday, you need to call. For weekends, you need to...sometimes we might not (do surgeries)...
(Recording 55 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf55)
Investigation Recording 56.
Investigation Respondent: Nurse with Kidney Transplant Unit of Wuhan Tongji Hospital
Investigation Date: November 2, 2020 (86-27-836652)
Summary:
1. Right now transplant surgeries are not affected by the pandemic anymore.
2. You can make an appointment to see Wei Lai, Director Wei.
3. We’ve been doing it all along, we’ve been doing it all along.
(Recording 56 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf56)
Investigation Recording 57.
Investigation Respondent: Duty Staff from Organ Donation Office of Sichuan Province Red Cross Society
Investigation Date: November 3, 2020 (86-28-84356308)
Summary:
1.There are approximately 100 donors a year.
2. We are only doing registration and witness work here.
3. This is the total donation number for the whole province, there are very few donors.
4. Question: Is there a need for your paper work for organs from death row inmates? Is there also a need for witnessing? There’s no such need, right?
Answer: They all have to be witnessed.
(Recording 57 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf57)
Investigation Recording 58.
Investigation Respondent: Ms. Wang, duty staff at the Donation Office of Henan Province Red Cross Society
Investigation Date: November 5th, 2020 (86-37-65949885)
Summary:
1. Question: The doctor said that donor sources need to go through the Red Cross.
Answer: I don’t know about the distribution of the donated organs, the distribution is run by the Public Health Commission.
2. Question: How many donated organs are there that can be used clinically, ones that can be used for patients? The Red Cross Society must know it!
Answer: The donations are done through the Red Cross Society, but we are only doing the assistance part. We are assisting and promoting it.
3. Question: The assistance you mentioned, is it about the donor who can’t afford medical bills, but can donate his organs so that he will be given some medical compensations. Is that the case?
Answer: This is not medical compensation. We call it humanitarian assistance.
4. Question: Is this assistance given to organ donors only?
Answer: That’s for sure! It’s definitely an assistance to organ donors! That is, the donor’s family has difficulties, so we will provide some assistance.
5. Question: Can we provide the donor with such assistance fee?
Answer: About this assistance, about this fee, it’s not like, whoever wants to assist can...it’s not like that. The government allocates funds, and these funds are benefit grants. About the organ distribution, if you have any questions, you can communicate with the doctor who’s responsible for hospital beds for transplant patients.
(Recording 58 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf58)
Investigation Recording 59 .
Investigation Respondent: Duty Staff from the Donation Office of Ningxia Red Cross Society
Investigation Date: November 6, 2020 (86-951-5055705)
Summary:
1. Question: How many donated organs can be used for transplants a year?
Answer: I don’t know, I think there are very few, and there are more in developed areas. There are few in places like Ningxia and Gansu. We have very few in Ningxia, Anyway, I feel, even though we have several transplant hospitals, we’ve never heard there were transplants done.
2. Question: Don’t you have donations here?
Answer: There were donations in some tertiary level-A hospitals, but those that have the authority and qualification for donations, have not had any donations. We had one last year. The population is small here, and they are minority ethnic groups.
3. Question: The tertiary level-A hospitals in Ningxia have ICUs, so if there are road accident victims or brain-dead patients, those hospitals could have...in those cases, there could be donations…
Answer: That's very troublesome. When there is a road accident, many of the minority ethnic people won’t allow donations. The population in Ningxia is already small.
(Recording 59 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf59)
Investigation Recording 60.
Investigation Respondent: Hubei Province Red Cross Northern Provincial Organ Donation Office
Investigation Date: November 9, 2020 (+86- 27-87327540)
Summary
1.Question: How many donated organs from the Hubei Red Cross Society can be used for transplant patients each year?
Answer: We had 600 donations last year.
2.Question: The impact of the pandemic this year is quite large. How many donations can there be this year? There must be fewer, right?
Answer: Then I really don’t know. I don’t have that data here.
3.Question: Are there still Falun Gong practitioners’ organs?
Answer: The government has abolished that. Starting from January 1, 2015, it has been abolished nationwide.
4. Question: At the emergency room of Tongji Hospital, if there is an accident, and they are willing to donate...the family is willing to donate the organ... will that kind of organ need to be witnessed by... that is, will it need paperwork from the Red Cross? Or can the hospital use it itself?
Answer: Donation and transplantation are separate. If you ask me about transplantation, I suggest you ask the hospital. We do not know about that. We only have donation information here.
5. Question: Is it true that donors obtained by large hospitals can be used by those hospitals without having to go through you?
Answer: It does not go through us.
6. Question: You handle organ donation procedures for patients in the hospital's ICU. This is your workflow. And you are still not sure?
Answer. Right. There are several statistics, and we are only...we are only responsible for the middle part. So when you ask me about transplantation, we really don’t know. You can ask the hospital.
(Recording 60 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf60)
Investigation Recording 61.
Investigation Respondent: Staff with Donation Office of Qinghai Province Red Cross Society
Investigation Date: November 11, 2020 （+86 971-4926187）
Summary
1. Question: How many organs are there that can be used on patients through the Red Cross Society?
Answer: We are doing volunteer registration. We don’t have statistics on those that can be used for liver transplant. We can’t do that.
2. Question: Of those that you witnessed, how many could be for our use, roughly?
Answer: Qinghai started promoting this work in 2019. As of now there have been four completed donations, and three of those are liver donations.
3. Question: There are so few donations?
Answer: The gap between supply and demand is really huge. We have no control over organ allocation. Hospitals have a OPO agency. And they have designated doctors managing this organ allocation system. We only serve as a monitor and witness in the process.
4. Question: If someone dies at home, unexpectedly, generally those that can be donated are all unexpected...
Answer: We can’t do this type. This type, the type that happens at home, that is, an accident or death, we...since before organ procurement, there is a strict evaluation process.
5. Question: There’s now a special channel for organs at Qinghai Airport. Is it because the donated organs are all given to others, or is it…
Answer: There is indeed. Because when there’s a donation, definitely...when there is a donation case, definitely the work will be carried out jointly with relevant agencies. Since last year when the promotion work started, there have been only four cases, and three of which were liver donations.
(Recording 61 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf61)
Investigation Recording 62.
Investigation Respondent: Nurse from Ward III of Urology, Beijing University First Hospital
Investigation Date: November 22, 2020 (+86-10-83572845)
Summary
1. Make an appointment to see Dr. Xu, Xu Xin or Dr. Ying, just these two doctors.
2. Donor transplantation must be approved by the state. We have received more than ten approvals this time and have not yet completed them.
3. We have not finished many pairs that were approved before 2019. You have to wait for the next group, probably after the Chinese New Year.
4. The state will not start approval until a group is submitted.
(Recording 62 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf62)
Investigation Recording 63.
Investigation Respondent: Duty Staff at Organ Donation Office of Liaoning Province Red Cross Society
Investigation Date: November 30, 2020 (Tel: 86-24-82578057)
Summary:
1. Dalian has only about 20 donors a year.
2. This year, the whole province has 30, or maybe 40, donations.
3. Due to the pandemic, there was hardly any work done in the first half of the year.
4. Organ donations that are not coordinated and witnessed by Red Cross coordinators are illegal.
(Recording 63 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf63)
Investigation Recording 64.
Investigation Respondent: Liver transplant doctor from the Affiliated Hospital of Guiyang Medical College
Investigation Date: December 2, 2020 (+86-85186774319)
Summary:
1. The teachers in our hospital are all very good at the surgery, they’ve done a lot of it.
2. Director Zhu is fully in charge.
3. The beds for liver transplant patients are a bit short, because there’s an increasing number of such transplants.
4. The pandemic is not an issue. The patient will be given Covid-19 test on arrival.
(Recording 64 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf64)
Investigation Recording 65.
Investigation Respondent: Ward Nurse, Unit III, Hepatobiliary Surgery, General Surgery, Xinhua Hospital, Shanghai Medical University
Investigation Date: December 3, 2020 (Tel: 86-21-25077905)
Summary
1. Directors Gu Jinyang and Chen Litian each lead a team doing liver transplants.
2. This is Doctor Zhang’s cell number: +86 015026559088. Doctor Zhang is responsible for organs in Gu Jinyang’s team. He knows more than I do.
3. Since our two directors both have liver transplant patients, there are quite a number of liver transplant patients under our care.
4. There are liver transplant patients every day, there are a lot of them every day.
5. Liver transplant patients keep coming to us. Our ward has several beds specially for liver transplant patients. There are a few beds on the fourth floor specially for liver transplant patients
(Recording 65 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf65)
Investigation Recording 66.
Investigation Respondent: Duty Staff from Organ Donation Office of Guizhou Province Red Cross Society
Investigation Date: December 21,2020 （+86-85182273318）
Summary
1. We go witness each and every organ donation.
2. We have had several dozens of donations in the past two years.
What they donate are almost all either the liver or the kidney.
3. Question: The hosiptal collected organ fee in the amount of 100,000 rmb yuan to 150,000 rmb yuan, without providing an invoice. Where did the money go?
Answer: I don’t know. We are not involved. It’s handled by the hospital and Health Commission.
(Recording 66 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf66)
Investigation Recording 67.
Summary
1. It’s director’s clinic time on Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday mornings.
2. We have lots of patients, we are busy, and more than 200 surgeries are done a year.
(Recording 67 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf67)
Investigation Recording 68.
Investigation Respondent: Duty Staff at Organ Donations Office of Yangpu District Red Cross Society, Shanghai
Investigation Time: December 29, 2020 （+86- 2125033472）
Summary
1. The hospital happens to have this organ supply, so he should apply for donation first, and the Red Cross will go witness it.
2. The registration and actually happening of organ donation are two different concepts. When someone registers, it’ll be calculated when he will pass away. This can’t be calculated. And can this data be used? There needs to be a medical assessment of whether or not the organ can be used when the person passes away.
3. As for organ retrieval, we do not get involved in the whole process. The health commission, the health administration, and some hospitals will do it.
4. The health commission is leading the work, it is the higher authority, and it takes care of hospitals; we, the Red Cross, don’t. The tertiary level A hospitals are not within the responsibilities of coordinators from district Red Cross.
5. The data you wanted to know are confidential, this data can’t be made public.
6. It is managed by the data bank.
(Recording 68 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf68)
Investigation Recording 69.
Investigation Respondent: Duty Staff at Organ Donation Office of Wuhan Red Cross Society
Investigation Date: December 16, 2020 (+86- 27-82812604)
Summary
1. Donating livers and receiving livers are all done in hospitals and transplant centers. People who wish to donate only register with our Red Cross.
2. There are hardly any organ donations in Wuhan City now, and they are all being done at the provincial level of Hubei.
We are now mainly doing body donation for medical school teaching.
3. It is useless to go to the provincial Red Cross Society when waiting for an organ for transplantation. It is meaningless to go to them or to us. They are all done in the hospital, and the doctor will designate one for you.
(Recording 69 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf69)
Investigation Recording 70.
Investigation Respondent: Nurse, Kidney Transplant Ward, Second Hospital, Shandong University
Investigation Date: January 2, 2021 (+86-531-85875621)
Summary
1. Transplant surgeries are not affected by the pandemic. Nuclear Acid Tests are not required for hospital visits.
2. Over two hundred were done last year.
3. Usually Director Wang Hongwei is the chief surgeon. Go ask him for waiting time, price, and so on.
4. There are patients who got it done in two to three days.
5. Tian Chuan is also a director level surgeon in the Transplantation Division. He does surgeries as well.
6. Today is the second day of the year. Two surgeries have been done already.
(Recording 70 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf70)
Investigation Recording 71.
Investigation Respondent: Nurse on Duty from Liver Transplantation Ward, First Hospital of Jilin University
Investigation Date: January 3, 2021 (+86-431-8187516220)
Summary
1. About 100 cases per year.
2. Some had waited for a few months and still didn’t get it. Some could get it in just one week.
3. Not affected by the Pandemic. No problem.
5. You see Zhao Guangjie first. He is mainly responsible for signing up transplant patients on the waiting list. (Recording 71 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf71)
Investigation Recording 72.
Investigation Respondent: Nurse from Kidney Transplant Ward, Shandong Provincial Hospital
Investigation Date: January 4, 2021 (+86-531-68776161)
Summary
1. You should see Director Meng at the clinic. He will tell you everything. All your questions will be answered by him.
2. Director Meng, Meng Huilin. He will be available at the clinic Wednesday all day.
3. We have been doing it every week. We do a pair every week.
(Recording 72 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf72)
Investigation Recording 73.
Investigation Respondent: Dr. Wang Zhigang, Kidney Transplant, First Affiliated Hospital of Zhengzhou University
Investigation Date: January 1, 2021 (+86-371-66862192)
Summary
1. You go to the nurse's station to reserve a bed, currently, there are no beds available.
2. Feng Guiwen is the Director.
3. No need to make an appointment; you can come directly to the ward on the 19th floor of Building 1.
4. Each year, four hundred, three or four hundred kidney transplants were performed.
5. Take a covid test when the patient arrives at the hospital, and the transplant procedures are not affected by the pandemic.
(Recording 73 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf73)
Investigation Recording 74.
Investigation Respondent: Zhang Jixiang, Deputy Director, Liver, Gallbladder, and Pancreatic Surgery, Henan Province People's Hospital
Investigation Date: January 22, 2021 (+86- 371-87160405)
Summary
1.Director Chen Guoyong performs hundreds of cases annually, and this is not an exaggeration.
2.Transplants are mainly conducted by Director Chen; he is the primary figure in this regard.
3.There are individuals specially responsible for this matter; you can make requests to them when needed.
(Recording 74 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf74)
Investigation Recording 75.
Investigation Respondent: Doctor from the Department of Urology at the First Affiliated Hospital of Guangdong Pharmaceutical University
Investigation Date: May 23, 2021 (+86-2061335417)
Summary
1. After you make an appointment, come directly to the ward, 11th floor of the inpatient building.
2. The director's name is Wang Sen, Director Wang. Our department head, Director Zheng (Zheng Xiangguang?), is also available.
3. Kidney transplants alone, many can be performed, many are done each month.
(Recording 75 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf75)
Investigation Recording 76.
Investigation Respondent: Doctor Ou Yang from Wuyi Hospital of Chinese Medicine, Jiangmen City, Guangdong Province
Investigation Date: June 8, 2021 （+86-750-3509898）
Summary
1. Kidney transplants were done before. They were done between the 90s and 2000s, they were done by our Director Dong Wenhua. He’s retired. Now we don’t have access qualification.
2. Actually this surgery is hard to do, it’s that we don’t have the qualification, we have no access to kidney supplies.
3. Usually, people who need kidney transplant here with us, all went Guangzhou in the past 10 years or so.
4. At the provincial level, those belonging to the system of Zhongshan Hospital, the kidneys obtained by Zhongshan Hospital, their quality is good, their quality is good, and then they have more sources.
5. Organs were easy to get in the past, they were all from those unidentified bodies, or from those in prison and executed. Organs from those were relatively easy to get.
6. I have on hand some patients who have completed surgeries and come for post-surgery treatment.
7. The big guys in Guangzhou: Kidney supplies are scarce in the past several years. To start with, there have been no donations, first, there are no donations; secondly, there are very few those that are unidentified; and then the kidneys from those in prison and executed...
(Recording 76 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf76)
Investigation Recording 77.
Investigation Respondent: Doctor from Kidney Transplant Clinic, 303 Hospital of People’s Liberation Army, Guangxi
Investigation Date: September 27, 2021 (+86 7712870029)
Summary
1. 300,000 rmb yuan are needed for a kidney transplant. Does that include fees for kidney supply and hospitalization? Right.
2.Our team conducts over 400 kidney transplants a year.
3. There are over ten doctors who are able to conduct the surgery.
4. Donor fees cannot be reimbursed and are subject to the regulations of the Price Bureau.
(Recording 77 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf77)
Investigation Recording78.
Investigation Respondent: Nurse from Kidney Transplant, Affiliated Hospital of Guiyang Medical College
Investigation Date: October 27, 2021 （+86- 85186750633）
Summary
1. We have many chief surgeons.
2. Our hospital has quite many kidney supplies.
3. As of now this year more than 600 cases have been done.
(Recording 78 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf78)
Investigation Recording 79.
Investigation Respondent: Dr. Gao, Transplant Division, Beijing Fuwai Cardiovascular Hospital
Investigation Date: January 3, 2022 (Tel: 86-10-88396783)
Summary
1. Schedule an appointment to see Director Huang, he is responsible for assessment at transplant ward.
2. The chief surgeons, including the hospital president, have a division of work among themselves.
3. The fee surgery fee is about 500,000 rmb yuan. And this does not include the assessment fee before surgery. And the fees could go even higher if you need immune agent in follow up treatment.
4. The cost for long term post surgery immune agent is roughly 2000 to 3000 rmb yuan per month, probably for a total of more than 100,000 rmb yuan per year.
5. Funds are also needed for early period assessment and organ sourcing. Donor fee is 70,000 to 80,000 rmb yuan. Later period care may need 500,000 rmb yuan for a 10-year survival.
6. Here, many director-level doctors are doing it, including Director Liu Sheng, Director Feng Lei, President Hu—President Hu Shengshou, Party Secretary Zheng Zhe, as well as Director Wang Xianqiang.
7. We have several teams here, and surgeons take turns doing it, it’ll be the chief surgeon doing it when it’s his turn.
8. There are at least five teams.
(Recording 79 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf79)
Investigation Recording 80.
Investigation Respondent: Nurse, Kidney Transplant, Third Hospital of Datong City
Investigation Date: January 4, 2022 (Tel: 86-352-5556292)
Summary
1. Go see Li Haichao, President Li, or Director Wei, they are both okay.
2. Every where in the nation, I feel, you definitely have to spend some money underneath; the more you spend, the more quickly you’ll get it done.
3. Just contact President Li, he is the one responsible for these.
4. For hospitalization alone, you have to pay 100,000 rmb yuan as deposit. And the things you do beforehand, it’s not clear, as they are uncertain, not fixed. If you have connections, you’ll pay less, otherwise you’ll pay more. This is hard to say.
5. Surgery fee will be about 80,000 rmb yuan, or 100,000 rmb yuan, no more than 100,000 rmb yuan.
6. Surgery fee is not expensive. It’s the searching for kidney supply, which is not fixed, and it will be between 500,000 and 600,000 rmb yuan for that.
(Recording 80 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf80)
Investigation Recording 81.
Investigation Respondent: Doctor from Liver Transplant Ward, First Hospital Affiliated to Zhejiang University Medical School
Investigation Date: Jan. 20, 2022. (+86-571 87236195）
Summary:
1. Wang WeiLi does children. Zhang Wei is overall management, takes care of everything.
2. Sometimes we have a few cases in a day, sometimes none.
3. Transplant surgery has risks. Death happens too.
(Recording 81 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf81)
Investigation Recording 82.
Investigation Respondent: Nurse from Kidney Transplant Ward, First Hospital Affiliated to Suzhou University
Investigation Date: January 16, 2022. (+86- 512-65223637)
Summary:
1. There have always been many people waiting in line;
2. The patients we have now are all the ones needing kidney transplant. We just did transplant last night;
3. You go register to see Director Hu, or Director Pan, Pan Hao, or Director Wang, Wang Liangliang, any one of them is fine. There is a transplant clinic.
4. Right now, we have forty to fifty patients in the ward;
5. Question: How many can be done in a month?
Answer: Could be a few dozens or a few hundreds. It’s all possible.
(Recording 82 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf82)
Investigation Recording 83.
Investigation Respondent: Doctor from Urology, First Affiliated Hospital of Nanchang University
Investigation Date: February 2, 2022. （+86 791-8694129）
Summary:
1. Of course our hospital can do it. How come we can’t? We are doing it now. Have been doing it all along.
2. You should come to register. Anything you want to know, you can ask that...the person specializing in it will know. There is someone responsible for registration, you can ask him when you come.
3. There are many people coming for surgery, many, quite many. We have many in the ward.
(Recording 83 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf83)
Investigation Recording 84.
Investigation Respondent: Doctor, Liver Transplant, Nanfang Hospital, Southern Medical University
Investigation Date: February 14, 2022 (+86- 20-61641114)
1. You need to get into the waiting database and wait there.
2. There are quite many people waiting in line.
3. Doctors such as Xu Jian and Yu Lixin are still here.
4. Question: How many cases (of transplant) can be done a year? Are there more than 100?
Answer: Well, that’s …
Question: Over 200?
Answer: Uh. Yes, yes, yes.
Question: There are as many as 200 cases, right?
Answer: Well. No. There are not that many.
Question: Well. Over 100 cases? Ah, that’s not bad.
Answer: Ah, yes.
(Recording 84 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf84)
Investigation Recording 85.
Investigation Respondent: Nurse from the Third People’s Hospital of Shenzhen City
Investigation Date: February 18, 2022 (+86- 755-61222333)
Summary
1. Question: I heard you are very successful in kidney transplants. How many do you do a year?
Answer: We do two or three hundred cases a year. Yes.
2. It may take 300 to 400 thousand rmb yuan when it is all done.
(Recording 85 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf85)
Investigation Recording 86.
Investigation Respondent: Doctor from Urology Surgery, the Second Affiliated Hospital of Hainan Medical College
Investigation Date: February 22, 2022 (+86- 89866808285)
Summary:
1. Approximately more than 100 cases can be done every year
2. The doctors in the transplant department are all very good.
(Recording 86 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf86)
Investigation Recording 87.
Investigation Respondent: Nurse from the 923rd Hospital of the Chinese People's Liberation Army (formerly 303 Hospital)
Investigation Date: February 22, 2022 (+86- 771 2870 303)
Summary
1. Question: Huang Chen, Wang Hongliang, Dong Jianhui, and Hou Shansheng, they are all doing it, right?
2. Answer: Yes, they are all doing it. Director Dong, Director Dong Jianhui, he is the director. Let him do it.
3. Ask Director Dong, because only he knows about the so-called kidney source...
4. Question: You’ll do more than 100 cases a year anyway, right? That’s the minimal.
Answer: Well, it should be, in fact we were back then...we were kind of leading in the military.
5. Question: How long does it take to wait in line?
Answer: He may not be able to tell you, because this kind of thing, eh...
(Recording 87 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf87)
Investigation Recording 88.
Investigation Respondent: Nurse with Kidney II of the No. 924 Hospital of the Joint Logistics Support Force (formerly No. 181 Hospital)
Investigation Date: February 23, 2022 (+86- 773-3843453)
Summary
1.There are kidney transplant surgeries.
2. After matching, the doctor will tell you some specific things.
3. One year...in terms of surgeries performed, more than 100 cases were done a year.
(Recording 88 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf88)
Investigation Recording 89.
Investigation Respondent: Nurse with Kidney Transplant Ward of Sichuan Province Academy of Medical Sciences
Investigation Date: February 27, 2022 (+86- 2887393739)
Summary
1. There is a special place for registration.
2. We can do this surgery.
3. Director Yang Hongji conducts kidney transplant surgery.
4. Many doctors are doing it.
(Recording 89 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf89)
Investigation Recording 90.
Investigation Respondent: Nurse from Transplant Department, Guizhou Province People’s Hospital
Investigation Date: March 1, 2022 (+86- 85185258229)
Summary
1.It’s our Director Zhang Yi who’s doing liver transplant. You ask him directly, just ask him any questions you have.
2.There’s just one team. It’s just our department in the whole hospital that’s doing this liver transplant, and it’s all done by this Director Zhang Yi.
3.How many? You check it out yourself, we can’t tell you these things.
4.Question: About 100 cases could be done a year? Answer: Eh, more or less. You go ask him for the specifics.
(Recording 90 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf90)
Investigation Recording 91.
Investigation Respondent: Kidney Transplant Surgeon with the First Affiliated Hospital of Kunming Medical University
Investigation Date: March 1, 2022 (+86- 871-6532488)
Summary
1. Register for our Transplant Section, and then we have someone specially for transplant.
2. See this Chen Ling, Doctor Chen Ling.
3. Question: Is surgeon Ma Chaolong still doing it? Answer: Yes, he is still doing it.
4. You come straight to the transplant liaison office for information, and he will tell you details.
5. We do not accept telephone consultations; all are face-to-face.
(Recording 91 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf91)
Investigation Recording 92.
Investigation Respondent: Nurse with Zunyi Medical School Affiliated Hospital
Investigation Date: March 1, 2022 （+86- 85128608357）
Summary:
1.Our hospital is qualified to do kidney transplants;
2.Register to see Liang Guobiao. He is the one that does the best. He is the director of our department;
3.There is one team doing it;
4.If you have questions, just go register to see him. He is able to tell you a lot…a lot of things;
5.Question: He can do more than a hundred cases a year, right? Answer: Yes;
(Recording 92 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf92)
Investigation Recording 93.
Investigation Respondent: Nurse with the Kidney Transplantation Department of Shaanxi Provincial People's Hospital
Investigation Date: March 3, 2022 (+86- 29-85251331)
Summary
1. Nurse: Because basically if it’s one person, doesn’t that person have two kidneys? You are just one person, but the other half of the kidney needs to have a recipient too, only then can this kidney be taken out. Basically, when we do kidney transplant, we always do it for two patients simultaneously.
2. Question: So you have to find such a person, remove the kidney here and transplant it there, is that what you mean?
Answer: Ah, yes, yes. You think about it: if you only picked one here, wouldn't that one be wasted?
3. Question: So you need to find two people, right? After matching, you’ll do both at the same time, right?
Answer: Ah yes.
4. Go see our Dr. Zhang Pengjie, he specializes in kidney transplantation.
5. They are all doctors with our kidney transplant department, Du Peng, Zhang Pengjie, and Chen Rui...
6. Question: More than 100 cases were done a year, right?
Answer: Pretty much so.
7. Many patients in our department come here for recovery after kidney transplantation.
8. Question: There are quite a lot of kidney sources, right?
Answer: Ah, quite a lot, yes.
(Recording 93 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf93)
Investigation Recording 94.
Investigation Respondent: Nurse from Kidney Transplantation Department of First Affiliated Hospital of Xi'an Jiaotong University
Investigation Date: March 3, 2022 (+49-29 85323955)
Summary
1. Question: Is Director Xue Wujun still doing it?
Answer: He rarely but still does it. He is the president of the hospital, and he is not specifically in charge of patients.
2. We have been doing this here for more than thirty years.
3. When they schedule surgeries they have a chief surgeon, a first assistant, and a second assistant.
4. How long will you have to wait? I am unable to tell you, it depends on matching.
(Recording 94 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf94)
Investigation Recording 95.
Investigation Respondent: Nurse with Kidney Transplant at Qinghai University-affiliated Hospital
Investigation Date: March 6, 2022 (+86- 9716230853)
Summary
If a kidney source becomes available, a coordinator will naturally contact you. Our department has a coordinator specifically in charge of kidney transplantation. One is Li Ming, Dr. Li. And there is also Zhang Baolin, Dr. Zhang.
(Recording 95 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf95)
Investigation Recording 96.
Investigation Respondent: Nurse from Urology, No. 371 Hospital of People’s Liberation Army, Xinxiang, Henan
Investigation Date: March 2, 2022 （+86-373-5193654）
Summary
1.No.371 Hospital has been renamed as Army 83rd Group Hospital.
2.Director Guo Junyi is usually available at the clinic Monday and Wednesday.
3.Question: Your hospital can do more than 100 cases a year?
Answer: More or less.
4.Question: That means, the organ supply is...is sufficient, right?
Answer: Yes, right.
5.Question: Is the organ supply from local or non-local?
Answer: It’s within the province.
(Recording 96 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf96)
Investigation Recording 97.
Investigation Respondent: Nurse with Liver Transplant, Guizhou Medical College Affiliated Hospital
Investigation Date: April 8, 2022 （+86- 85186773083）
Summary
1.Register to see Director Zhu Haitao, or Director Zhou, Zhou Weilong, both are fine.
2.There was a patient who needed liver transplant; he came on the 13th and had his transplant done on the 15th .
3.The waiting time could be one week, or one month. It’s uncertain.
4. You will need to prepare around 500,000 yuan.
(Recording 97 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf97)
Investigation Recording 98.
Investigation Respondent: Dr. Li Zhiqiang from Doctor’s Office, Liver Transplant, Affiliated Hospital of Guizhou Medical College
Investigation Date: April. 8, 2022 (Tel: +86-851-86774319)
Summary
1.Doctor: Where did you find my cellphone number?
(Asked again later) And then, how did you find out about me?
2.You come over first, get admitted into the hospital first, and then I will talk to you about these things face to face, okay?
3.Question: Is there a special channel?
Answer: About these...these things, I can’t talk to you on the phone.
4. Question: A retired old cadre, it’s fine to give money.
Answer: Ah, right, right. But about these things, we can’t talk over the phone.
5. Even if it’s President Zuo himself doing it, it’s impossible to...Falun Gong’s organs, that’s not possible.
6. If it’s indeed needed, do it as early as possible...help can be provided as early as possible.
7. We just came here in Guizhou from Beijing, so we are not doing many now in Guizhou. But we did it in Beijing every year. This one team of ours could do approximately over 100 surgeries a ...a year.
(Recording 98 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf98)
Investigation Recording 99.
Investigation Respondent: Nurse with Surgery Ward, Fudan University Zhongshan Hospital
Investigation Date: April 30, 2022 (Tel: +86-21-64041990)
Summary
1. We are business as usual taking liver transplant patients.
2. Question: It was reported in the news that eight liver transplants were done in April.
Answer: Their arrangements were made earlier, they were made in advance.
3. We didn’t stop seeing patients. We are business as usual doing surgeries.
4. It’s our presidents doing it—Zhou Jian and Fan Jia. The other doctors are assistants.
5. The fastest (donor availability) could be one or two days.
6. Advance payment is approximately 400 to 500 thousand rmb yuan.
7. Donor fee is not included in the hospitalization fees. It is paid separately and not to be reimbursed by medical insurance, guess not.
8. Question: Can we select donors?
Answer: For specifics, you need to talk to the doctor. For this...you need to talk to the doctor.
9. Question: How many transplant surgeries can you do a year?
Answer: More than 300 last year, approximately.
(Recording 99 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf99)
Investigation Recording 100.
Investigation Respondent: Doctor from the Urology Department of the First Hospital of Jilin University
Investigation Date: September 9, 2020 (Tel: 86-431-81875831)
Summary
1. Professor Wang Gang from Transplant Inquiry Office is responsible for signing up on the waiting line, tissue matching, return visit...if you only need information, you just register to see Professor Wang Gang.
2. Zhou Honglan, our section director, leads the team doing it.
3. We did more than 200 cases last year.
4. Question: We want the organ from Falun Gong practitioners who don’t smoke or drink. The quality of that type is the best. I just want that kind, even though it’s more expensive.
Answer: For that, I can’t be of any help. If you want, you contact our director directly. I can’t be of any help, I can’t be of any help. We don’t have the authority to handle these things. It’s our director who handles these things.
(Recording 100 download: MP3, transcript download: pdf100)
Reference
[1] 2023 Report of WOIPFG’s Investigation into CCP’s Ongoing Organ Harvesting from Living Falun Gong Practitioners April 15, 2023
https://www.zhuichaguoji.org/node/139060
https://www.upholdjustice.org/node/652
2 2023 Report of WOIPFG’s Investigation into CCP’s Ongoing Organ Harvesting from Living Falun Gong Practitioners
https://www.upholdjustice.org/node/652
